TrailCast - Podcasting on foot

Thoughtfully transcribed by Eric West

 

Welcome to TrailCast, a podcast exclusively about long-distancehiking. My name is Bob Butler, welcome to the first program. Theformat of this podcast is going to be pretty darn simple, it’s goingto be telephone interviews with hikers, well-known trailpersonalities, experts, website maintainers, equipment manufacturers,anybody that I can think about that has anything that could possiblydo with hiking.

It is Appalachian Trail thru-hiker season for the northbounders, so attimes this podcast may seem a little AT-centric. The goal of thispodcast is essentially just to bring you the voices of people thatyou’ve probably read about or heard of. If you like to lurk in any ofthe online hiking resources such as the fantastic websites likewhiteblaze.net,trailforums.com,trailjournals.com,thru-hiker.com,several others I’ll be plugging more along the way. You’ve probablyread posts by some of the people that I"m going to be trying tointerview. Some names may sound familiar, people like Baltimore Jack,Miss Janet, and maybe if you’re actually following any of thethru-hikers by reading their online journals attrailjournals.com,maybe you’ll hear me actually interview somebody that you’re readingabout.

I’m not a professional journalist, and I’m not really trying to be.I’d like to keep this show extremely simple. It’ll be extremely lowtech, the sound will probably be very lo-fi. I’m not an expert hikerin any way, I’m still a novice. I’ve done four section hikes on theAppalachian Trail, I was in the Boy Scouts, I’ve done Boy Scoutbackpacking and camping, I’ve done various day hikes, I’ve done asmuch hiking in Louisiana as one can. I think I’ve hiked the longesttrail in Louisiana, which is the Wild Azalea Trail, and it is 31 milesor 26 miles, depending on who you ask, and which map you have. I willbe hiking that trail again this weekend in one day, it’s extremelyflat, it is graded as easiest. I’ve never hiked 26 miles in one shot.Even though it’s pretty flat, I’m up for the challenge. I’ve alwaysenjoyed hiking and the outdoors.

I rediscovered long-distance hiking several years ago. I’d known aboutpeople that had hiked the entire Appalachian Trail, but I didn’treally know about the Appalachian Trail or the experiences of athru-hiker. I didn’t really realize that it was that popular of anactivity, that’s been getting steadily more and more popular. Iessentially came across one fantastic website,www.thru-hiker.com,which was a great and still is a great resource for information aboutlightweight hiking equipment, do-it-yourself gear. It has a veryactive messageboard, it’s not as large a community as forums likeWhiteBlaze ortrailforums.com. It was definitely a good intro for me,essentially I reoutfitted myself completely using the advice that Igot from that website. In fact, you can probably pick out every pieceof gear I have from his site.

And I started doing a couple section hikes on the Appalachian Trail.The first one was an adventure, and the last one was absolutely thebest…they just keep getting better. It’s hard to do any serioushiking in Louisiana because Louisiana is extremely flat, does not lenditself to really any kind of challenging terrain. Like I said, thelongest trail, depending on who you speak with, is the Wild AzaleaTrail. I think there are a few other new trails, the Carolyn DormanTrail…I just recently joined the Louisiana Hiking Club, I’ve beenkind of a lurker, I’ve attended a couple of meetings. I’m not a hugejoiner, so it was kind of a big step for me. I always wanted to getthere and meet some new people.

If you live in Louisiana and you want to do any serious hiking, youpretty much have to go out of state, and after you’ve been on theAppalachian Trail a couple of times, you usually don’t want to doanything else. The Appalachian Trail is great advanced hiking. I wasabsolutely blown away, my first experience was just awful, it wasmiserable, I thought I was going to die. I had no idea how horriblyout of shape I was, and how unprepared I was, and it was an amazinglearning experience. I came back for more, and each time has been anew lesson, a lesson in equipment, a lesson in attitude, and I amutterly hooked. If I ever have the opportunity to take six months off,you know where I’m going to be. I’m going to be attempting athru-hike.

Along the way I’ve gotten to know a couple of trail personalities thatI’ve read about. One of them is Miss Janet, the imminently well-knownand ultimately lovable hiker hostel owner in Erwin, Tennessee ataround mile 338 if you are a northbounder. Her hostel is extremelypopular with thru-hikers. It’s quite obvious once you meet theperson…she’s very outgoing, very helpful, very knowledgable, andquite an advocate of the Appalachian Trail herself and long-distancehiking. She is so much more than just a hostel owner. She hasorganized a summit about what hiking can do for the community in whichshe lives, Erwin, Tennessee.

I think she’s going to be my first interview, I think I’ll just goahead and start off with her. Anyway, like I said, this is probablythe most you’ll ever hear me speak at any one time, I’m not an expert,I’m going to let the other hikers talk. You may find out that I’m abit of a gearhead, I’ll try not to focus too much on it. I’m not apsycho obsessive gearhead, I don’t go out and buy every new thing, I’mpretty satisfied with what I have. And I’ll be talking a little bitmore about what I have and I’ll always be asking hikers about whatthey use. Hikers, once they’ve kind of gotten into the groove ofthings, their gear is kind of like their religion. So I’ll do my bestto keep that in perspective, and keep my enthusiasm in check and tryto keep the show balanced.

I’m also a novice at podcasting, I’m just learning as I go. If anyonehas any suggestions for me, or if there’s something I could be doingbetter, please feel free to let me know. The way that you can contactme istrailcast@gmail.com. I have a website up, right now it’sincredibly stark, and by the time you’re hearing this, I don’t know ifthere’s going to be anything up at all. It’s really going to be just aplace to keep the actual TrailCast files, house of the RSS feed. I maysetup a forum, I may setup some announcements…if anything, I willcertainly try to do show notes, and give out information about peopleI’ve talked to if they mention any websites or email addresses oranything in particular, I’ll do my best to keep that up. I’m not themost organized person in the world, so forgive me if my show notesaren’t as complete as you wish.

The thoughts, comments, conversations, all the content of this show islicensed under the Creative Commons 2.0 license. Which essentiallysays that you’re absolutely more than welcome to use this content foranything that you want to…chop it up, use it, redistribute it,that’s fine. Just don’t use it for anything commercial. And just givecredit where credit is due. The music that you’ll hear on this programis also licensed under very, very similar licensing. I found most ofthe music underarchive.org, under their open source music section.All of it is either licensed under a Creative Commons or is justdownright in the public domain. I’ve done my best to contact authorsof the music that have posted it, and I’ve gotten in touch withseveral of them, and I’ve secured either verbal or written permissionto use their music. I strongly urge any podcasters out there to dothis as well, I think that there really is kind of a scary gray areaabout using music, especially with the paranoia about file sharing andMP3s. If you are intent on distributing someone else’s work on MP3, Ithink you should do everything you can to cover your butt. There are acouple of informative threads about this on Podcast Alley in theirforums about podcasting. Just go to Podcast Alley and do a search intheir forums for pod safe music, or maybe just do a Google for podsafe music. I’m not going to bother with trying to worry about anycopyrighted music.

So enough about that. For those of you that have read about, or seenthe names of these people that I’m going to be talking with, I’m sureyou’re going to find it a treat to actually be hearing their voice. Itmakes all the difference in the world, it actually kind of makes themreal people.

Janet Hensley owns and operates the hiker hostel Miss Janet’s House inErwin, Tennessee, which is at about mile 338 on the Appalachian Trail.And the section which is probably one of the most beautiful parts ofthe Appalachian Trail, the balds. If anyone has ever had a chance tohike on bald mountains, they know that it is exquisitely differentfrom a lot of the Appalachian Trail, where you feel like you’re justkind of locked in the green tunnel…thick canopy where you can be atthe top of a mountain and not really know it, because there’s notreally a view. It’s kind of frustrating, but once you get to thebalds, the game changes. You have spectacular postcard views, and itcan be kind of cold if there’s any wind, these are exposed, and I havebeen out there in wind and cold. By the time that a hiker has reachedMiss Janet’s, I guess that they have gone over 300 miles, they areprobably well on their game. They probably have their day-to-dayroutine down, they probably know if they’re going to make it or not.The hikers that I have spoken with at her house, they all definitelyhave a good day to talk about. I always ask what was their worst day,what was their best day…they all have a best day.

Miss Janet is popular enough that she is obviously in the Wingfootguide, she’s on the ATC guide, her reputation precedes her. I thinkshe is a must-stop location. Erwin is a hiker-friendly town, and Ithink that’s in large part to Miss Janet, who has gone out of her wayto educate Erwin about hikers, that they’re essentially not justhomeless people that are walking the trail. That they actually havemoney and that they can and will and want to spend money [laughs] whenthey get off the trail. She’s put together two hiking summits, whereshe’s tried to bring together the community along with experts toessentially hammer this idea home, and educate the town. And I’m goingto talk with her about that. I have stayed at Miss Janet’s hosteltwice while I was section hiking in the Roan Valley Highlands, and Ican attest to the fact that she is extremely outgoing, very, veryeager to help with everything, everything from advice on where one canget the best hiking in that area, equipment…she’s designed her ownalcohol stove! It seems like everybody has an alcohol stove, so it’skind of par for the course. Hers is the keep-it-simple stove, and I’mgoing to do my best to get some pictures of that on the show notes.

She has an incredibly famous van that can probably hold about 16people, and when you’re at Miss Janet’s House, you really feel likeyou’re a guest in the house…you’re staying in her house with herfamily. You’re watching a movie with her on the television while she’ssitting on the couch doing macrame or some other project. She’s one ofthese people that’s just always got a project, she’s very, very busy,I can relate to that, I totally understand that. She remembers yourname, you don’t feel like your just a $15 bunk and then please stayout of the refrigerator…you are in her house, you’re eating in herkitchen, and it just means so much to a hiker to come off of the coldtrail and come into a nice warm house, and just essentially be greetedinto her family. That’s why she’s popular, that’s among the reasonswhy she’s popular…you are in her house, as opposed to just in herbunkhouse. When Miss Janet sends you away, she’s sending you away byname…she remembers your name. She must see, maybe a couple hundredhikers a month, but she’ll remember your name! She remembered mine,and I’m not a thru-hiker, I’m just a section-hiker. And if you’re notcareful, you’ll get a trailname. If you don’t already have one…insome ways it’s probably safer to go ahead and self-name, if you’reworried. If you’ve got any odd habits, behavior, anything that standsabout your personality or nature, be careful…Miss Janet will findit, and she’ll append it to you.

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MISS JANET: Hello?

ROBERT BUTLER: Hey, Miss Janet!

MJ: Can you hear me?

RB: I can hear you.

MJ: OK, let me move up here with this. It’s too crazy down here.

RB: Has it been pretty crazy?

MJ: It’s been insanely crazy.

RB: The hiker season is in full swing, then?

MJ: Very much. I needed to escape for a few minutes anyway.

RB: Good deal. Do I have your permission to record this telephone call?

MJ: Yes, of course you do.

RB: Tell me when you’re ready.

MJ: I’m ready whenever you are.

RB: Alright, Miss Janet. You have a hiker hostel, and you’re locatedon the Appalachian Trail…why don’t you tell us where on the trailthat you’re actually located.

MJ: Well, officially at 338.9 miles is the mileage this year. In thedowntown area of Erwin, Tennessee. About four miles from thetrailhead.

RB: Why are you so popular [laughs]?

MJ: I have a good propaganda program! No, honestly, I wish I knewexactly. Other than the fact that I treat everyone pretty much asequals, and treat them all like my children, that seems to work witheverybody.

RB: Absolutely. As someone that’s been at your house twice, I canhonestly say that the difference between the other hostels I’ve beenat is that I feel like I’m a guest at your house, and not just apaying customer.

MJ: Well, every hiker that comes in the house has their own story. Andjust having a few hours to get to know that person, and to learn abouttheir story, makes it a pretty special thing to be able to do.

RB: And you like to trailname hikers?

MJ: I do, occasionally [laughs].

RB: What’s the latest trailname that you’ve handed out?

MJ: Probably the last trailname I gave to someone was a section hiker.And, I gave him the name Red Cape.

RB: Am I the last one?

MJ: I think so. I haven’t found any…I actually was working on oneboy, that has resisted trailnames all up the trail from Georgia, andwe tried to name him Teflon because nothing would stick to him.

RB: That’s a great one!

MJ: I don’t think he took it…we’ll see.

RB: Nicknames are kind of an odd thing, eventually you kind of losecontrol over the fact of whether you want one or not. I suppose thatPuck told me, essentially if you start answering to it, it’s yourtrailname.

MJ: If you start answering to it, it’s yours. And the funny thing isis you’ll be known by that by lots of people for the rest of yourlife.

RB: Sometimes it’s probably safer to go ahead and start offwith…like I was talking with Megan last night, what’s her trailname?

MJ: Burger.

RB: That’s it, Burger. She told me that she named herself and so didRolling Rock, and they both said that they did it because they wereafraid of what others would give them.

MJ: That’s true!

RB: Well getting back to your hostel, how many hikers can you accommodate?

MJ: I have bed space for 12 hikers. Quite often this time of the year,we have a few more than that. On couches and floors, wherever. We hada NASCAR Winston Cup race in the area this past weekend, and therewere no hotel rooms available for anyone at any price. Hikers thatcame off the mountain with the crazy snowstorm we just had, had tohave somewhere, so they didn’t care if it was on the floor or on acouch. They were just happy to be in somewhere dry and warm.

RB: And you’ve got some tenting space in the back?

MJ: We don’t do any tenting, it’s a city ordinance. They asked me notto, so we never have.

RB: On the subject of you and the city, you just recently had aAppalachian Trail hiking summit that you put together, essentially toeducate. I don’t know if it was just specifically Erwin, abouthikers…can you tell us a little bit about that.

MJ: Sure. One of the things that we’ve known for years is that it’sreal important to hikers to have a friendly town to go in to, and toget their chores done, find a place to rest. Especially if they need afew days to recover from an injury, or just to take an extended timefrom the trail. But they need a trail-friendly town, and most of themon the trail, in the trail community, understand what that is and whatthat means. The problem is that the people in these towns aren’talways sure who you are and what you’re doing. And they don’tunderstand what the trail is about, and it’s kind of hard for us tounderstand when we know more about the trail part as a county or acity, than that city or county does itself. The summit has been toeducate the local people, city officials, tourism department, anybodythat is getting a benefit, especially an economic benefit, from thehikers coming through in the area. And trying to show them who thesehikers are, what they’re doing, why they’re such an important economicasset to the town, and why it’s in the community’s best interest toembrace the trail as an economic and a recreational resource.

RB: Was it a good turnout?

MJ: It was a very good turnout, we were very pleased. We changed theformat a little from the first summit, this was the second year we didthis. And we heard from everyone that we just needed more time to talkand more time to network with each other. So this year we made theseinto a two-day event, and had a great turnout from the community.

RB: How did you change the format?

MJ: Last year, we started off with a two-hour luncheon, and did it inthe format of a panel discussion, and had some very well-known trailpersonalities and experts that came, and just spent a few minutestalking about some aspect of the Appalachian Trail. Either thefounding and the planning for the trail, and the funding for thetrail, and who is responsible for the trail maintenance and safety andthings like that, to long-distance hiking organizations such as ALDHAand the Appalachian Trail Conference. And we had trail maintainersthat were represented in that panel discussion, as well aslong-distance hikers. And they spent just a brief amount of timetalking to a group of interested people from the community, includingsome city leaders and some business owners and leaders. And just toldthem real briefly some very general information about the trail.Because that little two-hour luncheon was so well attended and we hadso many people afterwards that said we needed more time to get to knoweach other and to talk and to more fully develop each one of thoseareas. We had a three-hour evening with a dinner, and a film about theAppalachian Trail by Mark Flagler called Appalachian Impressions. Andwe had a study that was presented by Andy Brown on the economic impactof hiking in that area, that was one part of his discussion.

RB: Who is Andy Brown?

MJ: Andy Brown is with Equinox Environmental Consultation & Design outof North Carolina, and they did a very extensive study of the localarea. They call it the Nolichucky Watershed Recreational Impact Study.And what they were looking at is different areas of green tourism thatwe can further develop, including the trail and the Nolichucky Riverand the national forests that we are blessed with here.

RB: Do they have a website that you know of, off the top of your head?

MJ: You know, I’m not really sure. Equinox Environmental Consultation& Design, and he very well may have a website, I’m just not aware ofit.

RB: I’m looking on Google right now,www.equinoxenvironmental.com. Whoelse was…name some other notable people.

MJ: The Appalachian Trail Conference was represented with MorganSommerville and Julie Judkins, his assistant, came up from ourregional office to talk about the name change from the AppalachianTrail Conference to the Appalachian Trail Conservancy that will beofficial this summer.

RB: Really, why are they changing their name?

MJ: For many years, the Appalachian Trail Conference’s main goal wasto acquire the land that the trail traveled through, the corridor. Andto make that all publicly held land, and to try to get the trail offof privately held land, and to try to make it as safe…that meansprotecting the trail corridor, that we wouldn’t have to worry about itinto the future. Now they’re realizing that that’s been accomplished,and it’s taken a very long time, but we own well over 99% of the trailnow, it’s publicly held land. So now what they’re looking at is, nowwe have to conserve that, and in conserving the trail, we have toconserve the viewsheds, and the area, and the corridor around thetrail. So that as long as the trail exists, we’ve actually gotsomething to look at, viewsheds instead of development. So now theAppalachian Trail Conservancy is trying to move in that direction.

RB: They’ve essentially already acquired the land and the corridor,and now they’re just trying to maintain it.

MJ: Yes. And most of the future of what really is their role going to be.

RB: Well, who did you have at this conference…any new names at this summit?

MJ: We were really blessed, we had Morgan Sommervile, a regionaldirector who had not been able to attend the meeting last year, so wewere glad to have him here. The Forest Service was represented, but wealso had a gentleman that was supposed to be here that was in anaccident that afternoon, from the Forest Service, and wasn’t able toattend. And the Forest Service in this area is very interested inshowing a different face to the public and becoming more userfriendly. And that’s something that seems to be very important ontheir agenda, and I think it’s going to be very helpful…the ForestService has always been looked at as the policeman of the woods, andnot always appreciated. And they’re hoping to become more userfriendly and be more approachable.

RB: Sounds like they’ve got a PR department.

MJ: Yeah, I think so.

RB: What did you think or find or observe to be the biggermisconceptions among the people you invited to the summit about hikersand the AT?

MJ: Continually, when we have an event like this, it’s kind of a sadthing…when we have an event like this, a lot of people say the wordAppalachian Trail, and if they’re already an avid hiker or interestedin the trail, it certainly gets their attention the quickest. So mostof the time these large groups that we’ve been having, we had over 100people between the Friday night dinner and the Saturday events that wehad this year, we feel like we’re kind of preaching to the choir. Thepeople that we’re trying to reach, that have the misconceptions thathikers are homeless people, or that they’re dirty and have nothingelse to do except for walk the trail, and have no idea where the trailis, where it begins, where it ends, who makes it, who funds it, whotakes care of it. The people that have those misconceptions don’treally show up at these events. So one of the things that weidentified during the meeting and that we will be working on very soonwill be having our first organizational meeting and forming a UnicoiCounty Appalachian Trail Club, that will hopefully pull together threeaspects that we’re trying to accomplish with these workshops, with theAppalachian Trail summits. And that is to bring people that areinterested in the Appalachian Trail and would like to learn more abouthiking and backpacking as an outdoor activity. The second group ofpeople that we hope to attract are the business owners and thecommunity leaders that understand why the Appalachian Trail isimportant in our area. And the third group that we would like to pullin are the people that are just advocates for the trail community,that are trail angels, that are trail maintainers, that are peoplethat may not be hikers themselves, but are interested in hikers and inthe trail. And bring these people all together and form a club thatcan continue the goodwill efforts that this summit’s trying to do. Andtake it into the community.

RB: That’s going to be a daunting task, because there are a lot oftrail angels and non-hikers that are really involved with the AT, andit seems like that number has gotten bigger. Why is that?

MJ: Well, here in Unicoi County, all we’re hoping for are a few[laughs]. And if we can get a few active members, then they definitelycan help spread the word. But you’re right, overall, up and down thetrail, there are a lot of people working with hikers that maybe 10years ago you didn’t see as many trail angels and as many servicesavailable to hikers. It’s an incredibly warm and fun group of people.

RB: Obviously the trail has gotten more and more popular over theyears. Last report I heard is that the first week in March, there werereports of 50+ people at some of these shelters. Have you heard thingslike that?

MJ: Oh yes, oh yes. We’ve had over 50 people in Erwin for the lastthree days, each day. The numbers kind of started growing around ‘97,’98, and really peaked in the year 2000, and have leveled off a littlebit. But we still have thousands of thru-hikers every year. Usuallyaround 2200 is my best estimate.

RB: That’s where the real work of the Conservancy is going to come in.I was speaking with a couple other hikers about some of these reportsabout 50+ hikers at shelters, and they were really concerned thatthat’s pretty high impact, and they’re afraid that things, they maystart seriously regulating certain sections, more sections of thetrail like they do with the Smokies or the Whites.

MJ: That’s a very good possibility. I don’t see anything that willmake the thru-hiker numbers change drastically. I think that they’vebeen fairly stable over the past several years. But I think thatthere’s always a possibility that if something happened to make thetrail extremely popular in a very quick manner, like say, abestselling book was turned into a movie about the Appalachian Trail,and 10,000 people decided to hike next year, then we definitely have aproblem. So we have to be thinking of what possibly could happen,what’s the worst-case scenario, and how do we deal with that. One ofthe biggest things is to just try to teach people from day one, fromthe moment they start their hike, that they need to look at Leave NoTrace ethics, they need to realize that certain areas are highlyimpacted, and try to be gentle users of the areas.

RB: Is that working out? The trail around Erwin that I’ve seen waspretty darn clean, I didn’t see a whole lot of trash…of course, thatwas off-season when we were hiking.

MJ: I think most thru-hikers do a very good job. And there’s a lot ofpeer pressure among thrus…if you’ve got 20 people at a shelter, andyou’ve got two people that are trashing the place, everybody else willmake sure that they do what needs to be done.

RB: They’ll get a bad rep, and it’s really funny how a trail rep canfollow you up the trail.

MJ: Oh, absolutely. The trail grapevine is alive and well, and worksbetter than any telegraph system ever worked.

RB: Are they doing a lot relocations around the Erwin, Damascus, HotSprings section?

MJ: I don’t know of any that are planned right at the moment, therehave been a couple of recent relocations, one just south of Erwin thatopened last year, and one north of Erwin near Dennis Cove that openedtwo years ago. And both of those have proved to be very popular andvery well thought and very well built relocations on the trail. We’reblessed with some of the best trail clubs in this area, hard workingtrail clubs.

RB: Let’s talk a little bit more about your hostel, and some of thehikers that come by. As I mentioned earlier, you are extremely popularand that’s not just my opinion or the opinions of those that havestayed there, but browsing some of these online forums like WhiteBlazeor Trail Forums, Thru-Hiker, even Trailplace, you’re always mentionedvery, very prominently. What’s it like being a hostel owner? Does itkind of take a certain personality to deal with this?

MJ: Sure, I have a couple of things that make it a little easier forme. One, I’m extremely tolerant. I’m a single mother with threedaughters, and if you don’t learn tolerance raising your children,there’s probably no way you’ll ever have it. Raising about 300 to 350hikers a year absolutely teaches you tolerance, or you’re not going toenjoy what you’re doing if you can’t tolerate the differences inpeople. And having this many people in your home, taking yourtime…hikers come into town with a lot of different needs, andsometimes it can be a little overwhelming to have so many peoplepulling you in so many different directions. But over the years we’vecome up with some ways to make things go smoothly, and it makes it awhole lot easier. And again, I’m not dealing with people that expectto have everything done for them. We had a large lasagna dinnertonight and salad and garlic bread and peach cobbler and the wholebit, and it certainly was not something that I did alone. I had a halfa dozen people jump in and help me with everything, and then anotherhalf a dozen people jump in to clean up the kitchen and get everythingback in order before they started going to bed for the evening. Andthat’s what makes it work, is it’s a family and it’s very much a groupeffort on everyone’s part.

RB: Do you still keep in touch with a lot of hikers?

MJ: I do. I used to go through a really difficult period of timetelling everyone goodbye, especially at the end of the season. Andthen I realized that more and more and more, I was staying in touchwith people that I had formed very good relationships with, even ifthey were very brief. And now I count as my best friends in the worldhikers that I’ve met over the last ten years.

RB: Are hikers still pretty green by the time they make it to yourhostel, or are they pretty well seasoned?

MJ: By the time they get here, physically they’re doing it. There’s noreason at this point, barring an injury or an illness, that physicallythey can’t make it all they to the end of the trail, to Katahdin. Whatstarts happening here, at about the 300 mile mark, is that the mentaland the emotional starts taking a toll, people start getting veryhomesick. If they have a loved one at home, or family at home thatthey’re missing, or just their couch and their TV and their bed andtheir hot showers and their cotton clothes…sometimes they’remourning their dog that they had to leave at home. But it’s all a veryreal thing.

RB: I know that hiker!

MJ: Yeah [laughs].

RB: I met him! So this is kind of what you’re seeing, are you seeing alot…after the 300+ mile mark, is kind of the novelty of being on thetrail everyday kind of wearing off and it’s kind of turning into ajob.

MJ: Yeah, the monotony is starting to set in, that they’re going to begoing with for the rest of their hike, to get up and hike and go tobed, and get up and hike and go to bed again. And get wet all inbetween there, and cold, and sometimes because it’s not an easy thingthat they’re doing, it’s very difficult. And even though it can be themost rewarding and one of the most fun things that they ever do intheir lives, it’s still very difficult and very challenging on anyday. And with the weather that we’ve had this past weekend, and lastnight just was an absolute freak snowstorm at above 3500 feet, thatjust really surprised some people.

RB: A snowstorm came in?

MJ: Yes, we had four hours stuck on Roan Mountain in my van in themiddle of the road, not able to get off the mountain, it was amazing.

RB: Were you picking up or dropping off, or both?

MJ: I was dropping off a hiker, and we didn’t make it all the way. Wespent most of the afternoon stuck in a snowdrift on Roan Mountain.There was no snow below 3500 feet, and then boom, lots of snow.

RB: This is out by Carvers Gap?

MJ: Yes.

RB: And how did you get out?

MJ: Well, we had a nice young man come up and give me a little trailmagic. He used a rope and pulled us out of the road enough to leavethe van, and we went back and picked it up today. It worked out OK,but by the time we got home, probably 12 hikers had bailed out of themountains because of the ferociousness of the winds and the blowingsnow and the two to three foot drifts that they were having to fightthrough constantly, and not being able to see the trail. They justbailed and came back home.

RB: Have you seen a lot of dropouts on the trail?

MJ: Just a few. There really seems to be…people are really wantingto do this trail, they’re really wanting to do the AT. And this groupthis year seems to be very strong and very willing to be flexible whenthey need to be.

RB: You’re seeing a difference between this season and last season?

MJ: It seems like last season, the pace was so insanely fast that somany people were getting hurt and going home with injuries at thispoint. I don’t have as many people that I’ve taken the buses this yearas last year.

RB: And the season before…was 2003 the rainy season, if I recall?

MJ: Yes, 2003 was very, very wet. This year the weather’s actuallybeen pretty good, other than a few surprises thrown out here andthere.

RB: How far are you from Virginia?

MJ: To Damascus, Virginia is about 124 miles.

RB: So wow, they still have a little bit to go before they even hitthe dreaded Virginia Blues…why do they call them that?

MJ: Well, I think that what happens is so many people are goaloriented. So we need to get to this shelter, we need to get to theTennessee line, we need to get to the Virginia line. And once they hitVirginia, they hit the longest state on the entire Appalachian Trail,with nearly a quarter of the distance of the trail in the state ofVirginia alone. So it takes a long time to get to that next border.

RB: Yeah, I’ve heard that Virginia…people go into Virginia thinkingthat it’s flat, that it’s easier, and it’s not.

MJ: I think that’s a mean joke that people try to pull on each other.Virginia’s flatter…right! It may be slightly easier, but it is stilla lot of very difficult and very beautiful hiking. But one of thethings that happens too about the time people hit Virginia, is theentire trail will be canopied, and you start losing a lot of yourviews. And it gets really, really hard to walk for hour after hourafter hour in a rhododendron canopy with no views.

RB: And that’s what you should expect coming into Virginia?

MJ: There’s a lot of that, but there’s definitely a lot of beautifulthings to see. I’ve done very little in Virginia, but I had thepleasure of looking at thousands of pictures a year, and there’s stillsome beautiful, beautiful scenery there.

RB: What’s the most common trail related injury that you see?

MJ: Repetitive stress injuries, by far. Shin splints…shin splintsconfirm going too fast, too soon, and going too far, too soon andwithout stretching. And most people do not take the time to stretch.But repetitive stress injuries are by far the most numerous…ankleinjuries, knee injuries are very, very common.

RB: What about, have you seen any Lyme disease this season?

MJ: No, we really don’t have much of a problem down this far southwith Lyme disease. But the New England states, New York, in that area,that seems to have a very high rate of Lyme disease. A lot of peopletest positive after their hike with Lyme disease, if they bother to gobe checked.

RB: When I was there, I got to see it, I got to see the Keep It SimpleStupid alcohol stove. Miss Janet has her very, very own alcohol stovedesign. And you told me that you like to do alcohol stove cookoffswith other people that have their own designs?

MJ: I love a challenge!

RB: Have you done one this season yet?

MJ: Well, we haven’t had any boiloffs because my stove isoutperforming so many of the other popular stoves, that everybody’safraid of it [laughs].

RB: Why don’t you explain a little bit about the design of the Keep ItSimple Stove.

MJ: Well, alcohol stoves have a long, fun history on the Appalachian Trail.

RB: Why is that? Why are they so freaking popular?

MJ: I do think it’s because it’s something that you can do yourself.It’s something that’s incredibly simple in concept, there’s nothing tobreak, there’s nothing to tear up. You’re just creating a holder toburn denatured alcohol out of. And in doing so, you can change tinylittle things about the way you put a stove together and make itperform differently. And it can just be a lot of fun. Building thebetter mousetrap.

RB: For those that are familiar with the Photon stove, Miss Janet’sstove is very, very similar. It’s not a double wall stove, it’s justessentially a single chamber…two ends of a soda can or a beer canthat are gently fitted together, because sometimes they’ll split. Withthe jets punched along the side, and Miss Janet punches a K with abunch of holes in the center well to add the fuel, if I’m correct.

MJ: Yes.

RB: I think I saw you make one, and I think it takes you maybe about10 minutes to make one?

MJ: Well, if I’m not talking and visiting, it usually only takes meabout three minutes to put one together. I can do one with a pair ofscissors and a thumbtack. And no JB Weld and no aluminum tape andnothing else, and they seem to work very, very well. I gave one youngman at the beginning of his hike, and he’s still using it every day.When he got here to Erwin this past week, right at a month, and hemade me very happy that he said his stove has been wonderful for himalong the whole AT so far.

RB: We need to get that design on your website, once we get yourwebsite squared away, you need to post some photos of that.

MJ: Well, I will tell you this. There are so few differences betweenmost stoves and their performance and in their efficiency andeverything else. For the most part, it’s just fine.

RB: I know, but it’s your design! There’s this odd satisfaction that Idesigned my own hiking stove, isn’t that odd?

MJ: I used to be real technical with building my stoves, and I learnedthat from some stovebuilding friends all the way back in ‘97, ‘98,when I saw the very first alcohol stoves, and they were very, verycomplicated. We used templates and special drill bits and specialequipment to build stoves and hot pans and put them all together, anddefinitely that was fun. Simplifying it down to being able to use athumbtack to construct the entire stove made it even more fun for me.

RB: You have any other gear designs?

MJ: There’s a couple I’m working on. I’m trying to come up with asquare down bag that can be double bag for two people or can becinched down to be a cold weather bag for one person.

RB: Have you actually worked with down and that kind of material?

MJ: I don’t sew, I don’t look like Martha Stewart. I’m real good oncoming up with ideas, I’m not much on the sewing. But I do have somefriends that are very good with down, and I’m hoping I can get them tolook at my ideas.

RB: There are a lot of hikers these days going a lot more lightweightwith their gear?

MJ: About the time that they…the biggest number of people beingultra, ultra lightweight, probably two years ago. It seems like mostof those people have modified to lightweight in the winter, beingsafe, a safe weight. And you’ll see people going lighter in the summerthan they did five or six years ago, but it’s kind of leveled off.People are still wanting to definitely go lightweight, but with thenew packs and the new tents and the new sleeping bags that areavailable, it makes it very easy for people to have lightweight bags.But most people find by the time they get their 15-20 pounds oflightweight gear, that they have to have, and then they had that 20pound food bag to it, they don’t have a lightweight backpack anymore.

RB: Just a few more questions…let’s ask just a couple questionsabout you. What music do you like?

MJ: I like all kinds of music. We had a young man here this pastweekend named Jukebox, and he sings just about anything that you askhim to sing, that’s why we named him Jukebox.

RB: He’s kind of like a walking Name That Tune guy?

MJ: Absolutely. And he’s great with some of the old ’60s and ’70s oldtunes. He can do a lot of Elvis, and he does a lot of voices.

RB: What do you tune in to, oldies, classic rock, country and western?

MJ: Classic rock is probably my absolute favorite. I do like a littlebit of the newer country, I like jazz, I like interesting Celtic andbluegrass things, I’ve got a pretty wide taste in music. At almost anygiven time there’s some musician here, and probably my favorite way tolisten to any kind of music is just sitting, listening to someone singwith a guitar.

RB: What’s the last book you read?

MJ: The last book I read…I’m reading Wicked right at the moment.

RB: Is that Stephen King?

MJ: No, Wicked is…I’m actually learning why the Wicked Witch of theWest became the Wicked Witch of the West. And it’s a view of Oz that Inever would have dreamed of.

RB: Who wrote that?

MJ: You know, I don’t have the book in front of me, and I couldn’ttell you the author’s name for just about anything. But it’s actuallya very popular musical right at the moment.

RB: Well, thanks a lot Miss Janet. Would it be possible for me to callyou back from time to time? Like maybe in a couple more weeks and seeif there’s any trail gossip or anything interesting happening at thehostel?

MJ: Please, anytime give me a call back. There’s always interestinghikers here to talk to, there’s a different story that walks throughthat door every single day.

RB: I would love to be able to do that.

MJ: I’d love for you to, because I love sharing these people. I wantpeople to understand who these people are and what they’re doing, andthat it’s an incredible group of people.

RB: Do you think that maybe this week I could call back and maybe talkwith a hiker or two?

MJ: Sure, anytime. I would love that.

RB: Thanks a lot, I really do appreciate it.

MJ: Thank you.

RB: And I’ll be checking in with you, maybe in a couple weeks. Andhopefully there will only be good news at Miss Janet’s, no moregetting stuck on Roan Mountain, that sounds kind of crazy.

MJ: Just another day, it was quite an adventure, actually. And thankyou for what you’re doing, and good luck with your project, it soundslike a lot of work.

RB: Absolutely, thank you very much. I look forward to talking to you again.

MJ: OK, thank you.

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OK, well we’ve gotten through the all important first show ofTrailCast. If you have any suggestions, any comments, any thoughts,please send them totrailcast@gmail.com. I have no ideas specificallywhen the next program’s going to be, I would like to do at least threeof these a month…that may be a little ambitious. I’m not really usedto scheduling interviews and such, so I kind of do ‘em when I can. Andif there’s anybody that you think I should talk to, let me know and Iwill do my best to get in touch with them.

Special thanks to Miss Janet, thank you so much for that excellentinterview. I will be checking back with you from time to time aspromised, as well as calling your hostel and speaking withthru-hikers. Thank you very much Kelly Vice, for allowing me to usesome of that fantastic acoustic music that you heard as transitionmusic. And special thanks to Tom Joad for providing the theme musicfor this show. I found all of this music on the excellentarchive.orgwebsite, an absolutely amazing site. If you haven’t been there, checkit out, you’ll be blown away…what is available, what is open sourceor public domain. Check the show notes, I’ll have the specifics there.

From TrailCast, I’ll see you on program #2.